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mike

The article pretty clearly states that the 30-50 extra K would be on top of the million, not the 160K currently in Iraq and Afghanistan."Fraid you're wrong in your analysis.

Eric

Nice try at messing with things statistically, however, everyone in the Army is deployable, every unit is deployable. The new recruits will not be sent straight overseas. They will be sent to units globally. The units themselves rotate. The increase is for end strength, not combat deployed strength. The article may state that as the reason, but that doesn't make it so. Not sure about you, but I served in the military, including in Army Recruiting Command. I know a bit about how this works.

You do know that the retention figures you discuss only apply to first term soldiers who are ending their term of service that year, right? And, speaking as an ex-recruiter, I'll tell you that because of how those goals are derived (# of first term soldiers coming to end of term service), they will go up or down based on the size of the Army. With more first term soldiers (like now) those numbers went up, not down.

You do know that it requires 12 to 18 months to produce a fully competent and capable soldier, right? I'd explain how discharges and such work and how they've changed over the years, but it would take me far too long. Suffice it to say that the changes to retention of soldier who would normally be discharged early in peace time is not the big deal that you think it is.

llamaschool

Mike,

This is what the AP article states:

"Many in Congress believe the Army needs to get bigger - perhaps by 50,000 soldiers over its current 1 million - in order to meet its many overseas commitments, including the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan."

Yes, it states that it would be on top of the million...but that the extra 30-50,000 soliders are needed "in order to meet its many overseas commitments, including the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan", and not for anything else. The point of the article is that these 30-50,000 are important to maintain overseas commitments. To compare these numbers to the number of troops in the entire army isn't the point, because they're not necessary for the entire army. They're important towards maintaining overseas commitments.

Eric,

First, how am I "messing with things statistically"? Do you have any examples?

Yes, I do know that every unit is deployable. But you can't deploy every single unit in the U.S. Army in Iraq or Afghanistan, correct? You need soldiers at other overseas locations (Korea, Germany, etc.) and most importantly, in the States.

For example, let's say there are 160,000 troops in Iraq/Afghanistan, and 840,000 elsewhere (mostly stateside). And let's say that there needs to be 200,000 troops in Iraq/Afghanistan (which is an important point of the article).

In order to get the necessary 200,000, you need to either decrease the number of troops outside of Iraq/Afghanistan, or get new recruits. And I'm assuming that we haven't moved more troops to Iraq/Afghanistan because we need those 840,000 troops in places other than Iraq or Afghanistan. So more soliders aren't moved to Iraq/Afghanistan because this would stretch the limits of the army stateside and outside of Iraq/Afghanistan. That's why some defense analysts think it's necessary to increase the army by 30-50,000, as stated in the AP article. And this is why missing a recruiting goal by 8,000 shows the difficulty of adding troops that could help in Iraq. These aren't big percentages relative to the entire army...but they are much bigger relative to the # of troops in Iraq/Afghanistan.

As for retention numbers, it's difficult for Dafydd (and others) to say meeting a retention goal is more important than missing a recruitment goal if a) the raw retention numbers aren't published and b) we don't know the percentage of retained soldiers necessary to meet the goal. Dafydd's article doesn't have any reference to any hard retention numbers, and neither does the August 2005 press release. Without that data, Dafydd can't claim that soldiers are "re-enlisting in such huge numbers, easily exceeding retention goals".

mike

I'm not tryinig to get into an argument, but I think the point of the original post on these numbers (the one to which you responded) was that the coverage of recruiting "shortfalls" has been consistently alarmist, and unnecessarily so. If the current size of the Army was 100,000 men, 30-50,000 men would be huge. But the larger the base number, the less significant the 50K becomes. As for their utility in overseas commitments, well, of course. Why else would the US need more soldiers? And keep in mind that the need isn't for more soldiers actually in Iraq or Afghanistan. But again, needing a mere 3-5% increase in total numbers is hardly evidence of desperation or imminent failure. I guess another way of looking at it is to consider this: Is it realistic to think that the US might fail in Iraq for lack of 30,000 Army recruits? I think the question points out the silliness of the coverage. Finally, I'm not sure how useful it is to take what "many in Congress" believe too seriously. Who are the many? And how many is many? I don't give a hoot what my buffoon Rep thinks, for example, or what Barbara Lee thinks on this issue.

llamaschool

Mike,

Thanks for the response. I respectfully disagree. 50,000 troops would make a big difference in Iraq/Afghanistan, either by allowing for individual troops to spend less time in Iraq/Afghanistan, having more members of the Army in Iraq and less members of the National Guard, or by having more troops on the ground. I don't know if the Army will fail with the current number of troops, but an extra 30-50,000 would certainly help.

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